Comments on: “I’d Rather Cripple The Economy Than Back A Union” http://therelevantrhino.today.com/2008/12/13/id-rather-cripple-the-economy-than-back-a-union/ Aggressively nudging you back into reality Sun, 08 Nov 2009 13:05:13 +0000 http://www.today.com/version-2.3.1 By: gamingtips http://therelevantrhino.today.com/2008/12/13/id-rather-cripple-the-economy-than-back-a-union/#comment-1133 gamingtips Wed, 17 Dec 2008 07:16:06 +0000 http://therelevantrhino.today.com/2008/12/13/id-rather-cripple-the-economy-than-back-a-union/#comment-1133 Threedegrees- If you think that the Unions are any less powerful, or cause any less grief in right to work states, you're sorely mistaken. Instead of just increasing the cost of doing business, they have to trick the employees into thinking they have no choice about whether or not to pay dues. And the insurance may be a little bit higher, but there are no pension contributions (and, in some cases, employees are eligible for pension contributions and matched 401k), there are not the same health care costs, etc. And again, the system in Union houses rewards seniority, not performance. I've seen three union workers complaining about/barely managing the work load that one non-union employee easily could have. I've seen good, hardworking employees leave companies because they saw that their efforts were not being rewarded. We can argue about this all we want, but there are positives and negatives to Unions. They are not the only reason the Big Three are not doing well, but to deny that they are a factor at all is absurd. http://thezspot.today.com http://gamingtips.today.com Threedegrees-
If you think that the Unions are any less powerful, or cause any less grief in right to work states, you’re sorely mistaken. Instead of just increasing the cost of doing business, they have to trick the employees into thinking they have no choice about whether or not to pay dues.

And the insurance may be a little bit higher, but there are no pension contributions (and, in some cases, employees are eligible for pension contributions and matched 401k), there are not the same health care costs, etc. And again, the system in Union houses rewards seniority, not performance. I’ve seen three union workers complaining about/barely managing the work load that one non-union employee easily could have. I’ve seen good, hardworking employees leave companies because they saw that their efforts were not being rewarded.

We can argue about this all we want, but there are positives and negatives to Unions. They are not the only reason the Big Three are not doing well, but to deny that they are a factor at all is absurd.

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]]> By: threedegrees http://therelevantrhino.today.com/2008/12/13/id-rather-cripple-the-economy-than-back-a-union/#comment-1116 threedegrees Tue, 16 Dec 2008 05:38:08 +0000 http://therelevantrhino.today.com/2008/12/13/id-rather-cripple-the-economy-than-back-a-union/#comment-1116 However, the cost of insuring a senior worker, or a union worker, is much less than an unskilled or non-union worker. It costs a company effectively the same amount to pay a union employee their rate as it does to pay and insure an non union worker. The way most people solve that problem is to move to a right-to-work state, pay their employees shit, and force them to work overtime to make ends meet. However, the cost of insuring a senior worker, or a union worker, is much less than an unskilled or non-union worker. It costs a company effectively the same amount to pay a union employee their rate as it does to pay and insure an non union worker.

The way most people solve that problem is to move to a right-to-work state, pay their employees shit, and force them to work overtime to make ends meet.

]]> By: gamingtips http://therelevantrhino.today.com/2008/12/13/id-rather-cripple-the-economy-than-back-a-union/#comment-1115 gamingtips Tue, 16 Dec 2008 05:26:01 +0000 http://therelevantrhino.today.com/2008/12/13/id-rather-cripple-the-economy-than-back-a-union/#comment-1115 Threedegrees, there is a difference between what somebody makes and the cost of their employment. They may only make $27/hour, but when you add the benefits they receive, especially those who are no longer even working or increasing productivity, it adds up to quite a bit. The wages are uncompetitive, but not by that much. The benefits, the cost of unproductive workers who are employed because of Union CBAs which value seniority over performance, add up to increase the labor costs. http://thezspot.today.com http://gamingtips.today.com Threedegrees, there is a difference between what somebody makes and the cost of their employment.

They may only make $27/hour, but when you add the benefits they receive, especially those who are no longer even working or increasing productivity, it adds up to quite a bit.

The wages are uncompetitive, but not by that much. The benefits, the cost of unproductive workers who are employed because of Union CBAs which value seniority over performance, add up to increase the labor costs.

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http://gamingtips.today.com

]]> By: bluesistersredstate http://therelevantrhino.today.com/2008/12/13/id-rather-cripple-the-economy-than-back-a-union/#comment-1098 bluesistersredstate Mon, 15 Dec 2008 03:09:39 +0000 http://therelevantrhino.today.com/2008/12/13/id-rather-cripple-the-economy-than-back-a-union/#comment-1098 It is sickening that Unions are taking the blame for the auto industry. Lets not blame the poor decisions of the executives or the unreliable product. It is sickening that Unions are taking the blame for the auto industry. Lets not blame the poor decisions of the executives or the unreliable product.

]]> By: threedegrees http://therelevantrhino.today.com/2008/12/13/id-rather-cripple-the-economy-than-back-a-union/#comment-1093 threedegrees Mon, 15 Dec 2008 00:34:28 +0000 http://therelevantrhino.today.com/2008/12/13/id-rather-cripple-the-economy-than-back-a-union/#comment-1093 Ah yes, if people making $5,000/hour could only have their way and freely pollute, demand 70 hour work weeks from illegals and children, and make giant, cock-compensating cars, we'd be fine. You know the right has lost it when they start referring to the highest amount of pollution allowed as eco-terrorism. Dolt. Ah yes, if people making $5,000/hour could only have their way and freely pollute, demand 70 hour work weeks from illegals and children, and make giant, cock-compensating cars, we’d be fine.

You know the right has lost it when they start referring to the highest amount of pollution allowed as eco-terrorism.

Dolt.

]]> By: Pauly http://therelevantrhino.today.com/2008/12/13/id-rather-cripple-the-economy-than-back-a-union/#comment-1092 Pauly Mon, 15 Dec 2008 00:13:57 +0000 http://therelevantrhino.today.com/2008/12/13/id-rather-cripple-the-economy-than-back-a-union/#comment-1092 Well, unions suck and they are anti-progress in a capitalist society. Anyone still in a union should be shot. There is absolutely no need for unions in today's workplace given all the damned EEOC laws. Unions just guarantee that American goods will remain overpriced forcing Americans who want quality goods to look to foreign engineered American produced products. Sorry - I don't feel bad for the unions or anybody who joins a union thinking they're protected. The unions, government regulations, and those eco-terrorists are what caused the downfall of the American auto-industry. No person who works on an assembly line where robots do most of the work is worth $80/hr. This was the right decision for America. There are laws on the books - its called bankruptcy. Perhaps if they go in to bankruptcy we can break the backs of the unions once and for all. Well, unions suck and they are anti-progress in a capitalist society. Anyone still in a union should be shot. There is absolutely no need for unions in today’s workplace given all the damned EEOC laws. Unions just guarantee that American goods will remain overpriced forcing Americans who want quality goods to look to foreign engineered American produced products.

Sorry - I don’t feel bad for the unions or anybody who joins a union thinking they’re protected. The unions, government regulations, and those eco-terrorists are what caused the downfall of the American auto-industry. No person who works on an assembly line where robots do most of the work is worth $80/hr.

This was the right decision for America. There are laws on the books - its called bankruptcy. Perhaps if they go in to bankruptcy we can break the backs of the unions once and for all.

]]> By: threedegrees http://therelevantrhino.today.com/2008/12/13/id-rather-cripple-the-economy-than-back-a-union/#comment-1090 threedegrees Sun, 14 Dec 2008 22:14:15 +0000 http://therelevantrhino.today.com/2008/12/13/id-rather-cripple-the-economy-than-back-a-union/#comment-1090 @ gamingtips- The average Union employee at one of the Big Three plants makes $27/hour. That doesn't seem overpaid to me. By the math that people use to get upwards of $70/hour (a number oft quoted on Fox), a secretary with company paid insurance would make around $50/hour. Now, is anyone going to believe that a secretary makes $50/hour? No. Because it's stupid math, and doesn't reflect actual pay. Why do it for unionized auto workers? Oh, wait, I forgot...unions are evil because they help people achieve the American Dream. @ gamingtips- The average Union employee at one of the Big Three plants makes $27/hour. That doesn’t seem overpaid to me. By the math that people use to get upwards of $70/hour (a number oft quoted on Fox), a secretary with company paid insurance would make around $50/hour. Now, is anyone going to believe that a secretary makes $50/hour? No. Because it’s stupid math, and doesn’t reflect actual pay. Why do it for unionized auto workers?

Oh, wait, I forgot…unions are evil because they help people achieve the American Dream.

]]> By: gamingtips http://therelevantrhino.today.com/2008/12/13/id-rather-cripple-the-economy-than-back-a-union/#comment-1089 gamingtips Sun, 14 Dec 2008 22:07:15 +0000 http://therelevantrhino.today.com/2008/12/13/id-rather-cripple-the-economy-than-back-a-union/#comment-1089 When Unions were more powerful, people were working in unsafe, unregulated industries and getting paid well below a living wage to do it. Now, Union workers make more money than their supervisors, and all of the dangers which they used to face are regulated by OSHA and others. Unions in today's world raise the cost of doing business. Noncompetitive companies should not be kept afloat by the government. IF part of that is Unions either renegotiating their CBAs or the companies they bully going out of business, then so be it. http://thezspot.today.com http://gamingtips.today.com When Unions were more powerful, people were working in unsafe, unregulated industries and getting paid well below a living wage to do it. Now, Union workers make more money than their supervisors, and all of the dangers which they used to face are regulated by OSHA and others.

Unions in today’s world raise the cost of doing business. Noncompetitive companies should not be kept afloat by the government. IF part of that is Unions either renegotiating their CBAs or the companies they bully going out of business, then so be it.

http://thezspot.today.com
http://gamingtips.today.com

]]> By: threedegrees http://therelevantrhino.today.com/2008/12/13/id-rather-cripple-the-economy-than-back-a-union/#comment-1084 threedegrees Sun, 14 Dec 2008 16:05:23 +0000 http://therelevantrhino.today.com/2008/12/13/id-rather-cripple-the-economy-than-back-a-union/#comment-1084 It's the hypocrisy and the disconnect that bothers me regarding the TARP money going to the auto industry, birdie. While I don't think we should pay for everyone that screws up all the time, Congress giving $700billion to the dumb fucks that screwed us over in five different venues, then denying 4% of that to blue collar Americans is just bullshit. It's a clear cut case of making big donors happy while screwing the constituents. That's not representative government. I would think a libertarian such as yourself could see that. ;) It’s the hypocrisy and the disconnect that bothers me regarding the TARP money going to the auto industry, birdie. While I don’t think we should pay for everyone that screws up all the time, Congress giving $700billion to the dumb fucks that screwed us over in five different venues, then denying 4% of that to blue collar Americans is just bullshit. It’s a clear cut case of making big donors happy while screwing the constituents. That’s not representative government. I would think a libertarian such as yourself could see that. ;)

]]> By: skwguitar http://therelevantrhino.today.com/2008/12/13/id-rather-cripple-the-economy-than-back-a-union/#comment-1080 skwguitar Sun, 14 Dec 2008 00:15:15 +0000 http://therelevantrhino.today.com/2008/12/13/id-rather-cripple-the-economy-than-back-a-union/#comment-1080 I'm happy with the solution. Seemed better than either of the lame-duck congress proposals. Hopefully after Jan. 20th we can revisit this issue. I’m happy with the solution. Seemed better than either of the lame-duck congress proposals. Hopefully after Jan. 20th we can revisit this issue.

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